Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

topic posted Sun, August 10, 2008 - 8:09 AM by  Baz
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So I just got back from a two week festival in PA where I spun, taught, and hung out with a bunch of phenomenal bellydancers from all over the US. We started to talk about the prevalence of poi in the bellydance world, and whether anybody had truly fused high level bellydancing/"world fusion dancing" and high level poi. None of us had seen it - we surmised that while you can do both, it is impossible to devote the amount of practice seen amongst the world's best bellydancers and the world's best spinners, to both disciplines. Moreover, complicated spinning patterns take a lot of concentration, which would be very hard to combine with the kind of muscle isolation required for really good bellydancing.
Most videos of poi spinning bellydancers involve some basic dance movements, and a great deal of spinning. Sometimes, you see a little more bellydance, but with even more basic moves. At it's best, it's like the dancer/spinner was trying to do both at the same time, but never as a fused art.

While having serious dance skills helps with body awareness, posture, and general body movement, are there any videos out there of super skilled bellydancers who spin really well?

[In case anybody was wondering, I KNOW that it's not all about skill, and both bellydancing and spinning are primarily about having fun. I'm just looking for an example of high level proficiency in bellydancing poi]
posted by:
Baz
offline Baz
Boston
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    Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

    Sun, August 10, 2008 - 10:10 AM
    Arashi would be the only example of technical poi spinning combined with bellydancing. i agree i have seen people bellydance fairly well while doing very basic poi movements, and good clean technical spinning with some very basic attempts at bellydance movements... but i'd love to see more high level movements of the two arts together and see where that could go.
  • Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

    Tue, August 12, 2008 - 8:58 AM
    There are so many BETTER tools for combining fire and bellydance. I think that is the main reason there is a lack in the way of high level poi combination - fans, fingers, swords, torches, palms, staff, etc.

    Also, a lot of more advanced poi moves require the body contort in a specific way in order to accomplish the move, then how would one combine that with a different kind of body isolation at the same time?
    • Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

      Tue, August 12, 2008 - 9:37 AM
      Ooh tell me about it. I have been a bellydancer for a few years, but am relatively new to the poi (1 year or so) and yeah, there are some okay bellydance poi combos, but it's awful hard to get advanced poi moves in with advanced bellydance moves. It's a work in progress...lol! And it's probably true that the other toy options combined with the complication = not very many techy poi bellydancers.
    • Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

      Tue, August 19, 2008 - 3:01 PM
      I'm definitely going to agree with Satya - I've been getting more into double staffs (which, I might add, strike me as possibly the most badass of the underused bellydance props), which actually prompted me to raise the proverbial eyebrow at the popularity of poi within the bellydance world. In an artform that elevates isolated movement, the introduction of the fire art that has the second highest level of technique-dictated-body-movement (only surpassed by contact staff) is very bizarre. Hence this thread :)

      Also (because I feel it needs to be said), one of the main motivating elements of introducing fire arts (look at my toy!) to bellydance (look at my physical form!) is the way the fire itself lights the form of the dancer. Enter fingers, fans, staffs, swords, etc. Poi, when stationary, hangs straight down at a distance of 2 to 3 feet - providing a lovely fire-lit view of...the dancer's knees.

      Also, to those posting links of evidence - I'm looking for bellydance that has solid isolation, crisp movement, and a degree of "layering". The poi spinning needs to be better than "weave, butterfly, fountain, reels, etc, and turning when you do it". For people who are confused as to what good spinning looks like, www.youtube.com/watch
      As opposed to lousy spinning, which is here www.youtube.com/watch (my level of heckle is directly proportional to the production costs of a performance, and this one gets what it deserves).
      • Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

        Wed, August 20, 2008 - 6:26 AM
        I think I understand what you are getting at. Perhaps the main reason that I got into combining both is that I do both and love both. Although, generally speaking, when bellydancing tribal style (which is all I really know, tribal plus some fusion) your arms are moving some, but basically it's a lot of framing the dancer. Perhaps we just can't resist adding another layer to it all?

        Another level of problem? Bellydance costuming plus fire don't equal an unscathed dancer, unless you are very, very good. And somehow it's not worth the risk to me. Hence why you see a lot more fusion plus firedancing, and not as much in tribal. Where in fusion the costuming can be more appropriate to the firedancing. I have seen some absolutely great firefan/bellydance combos and some great firepalms/bellydance combos, but essentially these are just items that you hold and manipulate, perhaps I haven't seen enough techie dancers to be really impressed. And I've seen some same old crap, "look at my toy" bellydancing, too.

        And if you're techie enough with the poi, there shouldn't be a look at my knees issue to the firedancing. Afterall, this particular one has so much face and upper body lit up, granted, it's by the master, Nick Woolsey, but I can dream, right?
        • Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

          Thu, October 30, 2008 - 11:29 AM
          Yes to another layer!!!! www.youtube.com/watch

          I don't like to see performances where the dancers just hold on to the fire.

          I <3 Arashi! He is a like a yoda of spinning. I took a class with him when he was in Seattle. I'm doing some bellydance poi stuff. I'll have to shoot some video. We have a show next weekend at Seacompression. It's not my favorite tool to bellydance with. I think that clubs are way more interesting because they have all the element of both static and dynamic tools.
  • Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?

    Wed, August 13, 2008 - 1:13 PM
    okay.

    The styles are more or less incompatable, i know tons of people do it, its just so much of belly dance is defined by the hand possition and arm movements, and to do anything with poi requires the freedom to move those extremities.

    Styles of dance that take much better to poi include modern, contemporary, hip hop (you shoulda kept trying to lock with poi) and even bollywood

    on the other hand, fire props that work much better with bellydance include fans, fingers, and sword, all of which have been used by bellydancers extensively.

    it is silly to try to combine art forms that by definition drastically limit the other. Instead we should try to find artforms that dont intrinsically destroy the others visual impression, and learn to fuse those into our own unique fire dance styles, much like poping and cj have been combined.

    (there is also a guy at my circus school who does a locking/diablo routine)

    its finding what works.

    and by definition poi and belly dance does not work.


    even arashi limits his poi by his belly danve and his bellydance by his poi.

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