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So I just got back from a two week festival in PA where I spun, taught, and hung out with a bunch of phenomenal bellydancers from all over the US. We started to talk about the prevalence of poi in the bellydance world, and whether anybody had truly fused high level bellydancing/"world fusion dancing" and high level poi. None of us had seen it - we surmised that while you can do both, it is impossible to devote the amount of practice seen amongst the world's best bellydancers and the world's best spinners, to both disciplines. Moreover, complicated spinning patterns take a lot of concentration, which would be very hard to combine with the kind of muscle isolation required for really good bellydancing.
Most videos of poi spinning bellydancers involve some basic dance movements, and a great deal of spinning. Sometimes, you see a little more bellydance, but with even more basic moves. At it's best, it's like the dancer/spinner was trying to do both at the same time, but never as a fused art.
While having serious dance skills helps with body awareness, posture, and general body movement, are there any videos out there of super skilled bellydancers who spin really well?
[In case anybody was wondering, I KNOW that it's not all about skill, and both bellydancing and spinning are primarily about having fun. I'm just looking for an example of high level proficiency in bellydancing poi]
Most videos of poi spinning bellydancers involve some basic dance movements, and a great deal of spinning. Sometimes, you see a little more bellydance, but with even more basic moves. At it's best, it's like the dancer/spinner was trying to do both at the same time, but never as a fused art.
While having serious dance skills helps with body awareness, posture, and general body movement, are there any videos out there of super skilled bellydancers who spin really well?
[In case anybody was wondering, I KNOW that it's not all about skill, and both bellydancing and spinning are primarily about having fun. I'm just looking for an example of high level proficiency in bellydancing poi]
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Sun, August 10, 2008 - 10:10 AMArashi would be the only example of technical poi spinning combined with bellydancing. i agree i have seen people bellydance fairly well while doing very basic poi movements, and good clean technical spinning with some very basic attempts at bellydance movements... but i'd love to see more high level movements of the two arts together and see where that could go. -
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Unsu...
Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Sun, August 10, 2008 - 10:11 AM"Arashi would be the only example of technical poi spinning combined with bellydancing."
meant to say the only example that i have seen!
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Sun, August 10, 2008 - 12:37 PMIt's difficult to be sure, I work with a belly dance troupe and I've been playing with the moves, trying to figure out which are compatible. I prefer middle eastern music to spin to and have only seen a few others combine the two. -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Sun, August 10, 2008 - 1:20 PMEugene, Oregon - Tribe of Eve. Belly dancing Poisters. -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Mon, August 11, 2008 - 1:12 AMCan you point us to any video clips of Tribe of Eve fusing high-level Bellydance and high-level poi simultaneously? So far I've only found a few 2006 clips, that didn't exhibit both at the same time.
(Really Baz, one need look no further than DJ Dantana back in the day. He was ahead of his time ;-P)
-Alien Jon
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 8:58 AMThere are so many BETTER tools for combining fire and bellydance. I think that is the main reason there is a lack in the way of high level poi combination - fans, fingers, swords, torches, palms, staff, etc.
Also, a lot of more advanced poi moves require the body contort in a specific way in order to accomplish the move, then how would one combine that with a different kind of body isolation at the same time? -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 9:37 AMOoh tell me about it. I have been a bellydancer for a few years, but am relatively new to the poi (1 year or so) and yeah, there are some okay bellydance poi combos, but it's awful hard to get advanced poi moves in with advanced bellydance moves. It's a work in progress...lol! And it's probably true that the other toy options combined with the complication = not very many techy poi bellydancers. -
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Unsu...
Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 4:01 PMof course it is an unusual/ difficult combo- thats why it is so intriguing an idea! so traditional poi movements do not work, has anyone found anything that does? -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 13, 2008 - 5:49 AMIf it' helps, we've been practicing with slow bellydance movement and glow poi held in your hands like firepalms. It works very well for places where fire is a definite no-no.
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 3:01 PMI'm definitely going to agree with Satya - I've been getting more into double staffs (which, I might add, strike me as possibly the most badass of the underused bellydance props), which actually prompted me to raise the proverbial eyebrow at the popularity of poi within the bellydance world. In an artform that elevates isolated movement, the introduction of the fire art that has the second highest level of technique-dictated-body-movement (only surpassed by contact staff) is very bizarre. Hence this thread :)
Also (because I feel it needs to be said), one of the main motivating elements of introducing fire arts (look at my toy!) to bellydance (look at my physical form!) is the way the fire itself lights the form of the dancer. Enter fingers, fans, staffs, swords, etc. Poi, when stationary, hangs straight down at a distance of 2 to 3 feet - providing a lovely fire-lit view of...the dancer's knees.
Also, to those posting links of evidence - I'm looking for bellydance that has solid isolation, crisp movement, and a degree of "layering". The poi spinning needs to be better than "weave, butterfly, fountain, reels, etc, and turning when you do it". For people who are confused as to what good spinning looks like, www.youtube.com/watch
As opposed to lousy spinning, which is here www.youtube.com/watch (my level of heckle is directly proportional to the production costs of a performance, and this one gets what it deserves). -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 20, 2008 - 6:06 AMI think that was less about look at my poi and more about look at my boobs. lol! What a weird video. But thanks for sharing...
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 20, 2008 - 6:26 AMI think I understand what you are getting at. Perhaps the main reason that I got into combining both is that I do both and love both. Although, generally speaking, when bellydancing tribal style (which is all I really know, tribal plus some fusion) your arms are moving some, but basically it's a lot of framing the dancer. Perhaps we just can't resist adding another layer to it all?
Another level of problem? Bellydance costuming plus fire don't equal an unscathed dancer, unless you are very, very good. And somehow it's not worth the risk to me. Hence why you see a lot more fusion plus firedancing, and not as much in tribal. Where in fusion the costuming can be more appropriate to the firedancing. I have seen some absolutely great firefan/bellydance combos and some great firepalms/bellydance combos, but essentially these are just items that you hold and manipulate, perhaps I haven't seen enough techie dancers to be really impressed. And I've seen some same old crap, "look at my toy" bellydancing, too.
And if you're techie enough with the poi, there shouldn't be a look at my knees issue to the firedancing. Afterall, this particular one has so much face and upper body lit up, granted, it's by the master, Nick Woolsey, but I can dream, right? -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Thu, October 30, 2008 - 11:29 AMYes to another layer!!!! www.youtube.com/watch
I don't like to see performances where the dancers just hold on to the fire.
I <3 Arashi! He is a like a yoda of spinning. I took a class with him when he was in Seattle. I'm doing some bellydance poi stuff. I'll have to shoot some video. We have a show next weekend at Seacompression. It's not my favorite tool to bellydance with. I think that clubs are way more interesting because they have all the element of both static and dynamic tools.
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 13, 2008 - 10:33 AMi dont know if this is what you're looking for, but it sounds like it:
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 13, 2008 - 1:13 PMokay.
The styles are more or less incompatable, i know tons of people do it, its just so much of belly dance is defined by the hand possition and arm movements, and to do anything with poi requires the freedom to move those extremities.
Styles of dance that take much better to poi include modern, contemporary, hip hop (you shoulda kept trying to lock with poi) and even bollywood
on the other hand, fire props that work much better with bellydance include fans, fingers, and sword, all of which have been used by bellydancers extensively.
it is silly to try to combine art forms that by definition drastically limit the other. Instead we should try to find artforms that dont intrinsically destroy the others visual impression, and learn to fuse those into our own unique fire dance styles, much like poping and cj have been combined.
(there is also a guy at my circus school who does a locking/diablo routine)
its finding what works.
and by definition poi and belly dance does not work.
even arashi limits his poi by his belly danve and his bellydance by his poi. -
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Unsu...
Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 13, 2008 - 5:02 PMobviously poi and bellydance are not easily combined, that has been duely noted. what intrigues e about it is, how can poi be handled differently to accomodate different movement? could be a whole new world of poi dance yet unexplored....
or perhaps we should assume it's not possible and drop the idea of exploring new realms.... -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 11:14 AM<<or perhaps we should assume it's not possible and drop the idea of exploring new realms...>>
NEVER! that's what dance is all about. no matter what form of dance you are doing (poi, belly, jazz, etc) it's all about finding new ways for the body to move and make it look beautiful! sorry to be do adamant about this, but since i'm a big girl and can't really do lots of the moves that are out there, i do what i can to make my dance ability...mine. i dont EVER want anyone to NOT find something new to do.
ok...i'm done.
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 1:42 PMnot exploring new realms?
oh, you mean like imposing arbitrary rules that limit your range of technique, because of a stylistic choices? -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 5:54 PM -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Fri, August 15, 2008 - 3:04 AMI saw a little bit of snake arms, which were cool by the way, but thats about it. But Arashi has the moves and style to incorporate belly dance more than anyone I have seen yet. Very inspiring.
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 12:23 AMNoel you need to bust out the DJ Dantana clip!!! -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 1:50 AMshhh....there not ready for dantano!!
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 6:46 AMOhh, not going to share? Am hurt...very hurt...wanna see techie bellydance and poi together. Must have inspiration. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 8:03 AMI don't know Noel, might be right. When DJ Dantana spins poi, gets his booty groovin, and rolls his belly, ladies just seem to lose their cloths spontaneously. It's outta control. You may be safer taking the blue pill. ;-P
And this footage is all from back in the day, before many of you young pups even knew what poi was! -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Wed, August 20, 2008 - 6:09 AMWell, okay, if I promise not to watch him while I'm at work? Does that count? And I am an always taking the red pill kinda gal. -
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Re: Bellydance and poi - any techies out there?
Fri, October 31, 2008 - 9:03 AMI have to agree with the naysayers. I took a decently long belly class last year, and have spun poi for awhile. I tried some experiments, but I found that belly moves are so subtle in most cases that fire poi completely overshadows them. If you take away from the poi by say, shortening them a whole lot and keeping them away from your body you can tell what's going on, but even then poi is just too intense.
Good luck though, if you figure it out you better post a video for all of us negative Nancies out here.
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